Good on yer: its just what the business needs about now. There's too many daft questions from the "arrogance of youth" brigade & this masks the intentions of their serious contempories who we can point in the right direction with a work such as yours.

So what have you got, or not? ■

We have a 50 page Word document first draft (300 kB). The text is based on the work of Dick Stahura of Martin Engineering, and the First International Chute Design Conference sponsored by the Bionic Research Institute in South Africa. We will probably link in with the West Australian School of Mines, and Prof A W Roberts at TUNRA.

We expect the Handbook would be about 200 - 300 pages, heavily illustrated with drawings and working details.

John Rozentals

email: rozentalsjj@yahoo.com.au ■

I seem to remember a M.H.E.A. , (UK organisation), publication that had a chunk in it about transfer chutes for belt conveyors. (Not the "Recommended Practice for Troughed Belt Conveyors") ■

John, I have co-authored 3 books on belt conveyors and chute design. I would be happy to assist in any way. Please e-mail me your draft.

Larry J. Goldbeck

Martin Engineering

e-mail: larryg@martin-eng.com

Cell: 734-604-0914 ■

I had a copy once upon a time. There was

a section on curved chutes

data about chute lining

example drag calculations

replication of the dimensioning advice in the Conveyor MHEA "Blue Book"

I think it was titled "Recommended Practice for Material Transfer Chutes"

Does anybody know where the NCB Bretby Library went? There was a treasure of published work & Standards for our business. ■

Found it !!

"Guide To The Design Of Transfer Chutes & Chute Linings" (1989).

As for the NCB Library, perhaps it went in the skip with much of the UK engineering industry. ■

I am very interested in your paper - I would like to contribute in any way that I can.

Here is a good article from Ckit that shows good and bad designs.

http://www.ckit.co.za/secure/conveyo...i1-paper05.htm ■

Dear Mr. John,

Chute design is a very big subject, because chute has to suit feeding equipment and receiving equipment. There are various types of feeding and receiving equipment. Therefore, firstly to design proper chute, one should be well familiar with the connected equipment, their broad functional parameters and requirements. So, when somebody says he is designing chute, he is in reality also partially designing interfacing zone of the connected equipment. To make the point clear, if somebody has to design chute feeding to the screen the material is to be fed in a particular manner, width, depth, place of impingement, angle of impingement etc. Similarly, if one is designing chute connected to the crusher, then that chute cannot be designed properly unless he is well aware about the function of the crusher.

Furthermore, chute design in a crusher house is one of the most important issue and the overall arrangement of chute work will demand participation of the topmost people in the design department. Because the various chutes arrangement will decide the location of each equipment in the house, floor areas, house width, length, height and even incoming conveyor length. To compound the matter, the chutes have to also suit to the individual characteristics of the material viz. its flowability, abrasiveness, lump size, stickiness and so on. There are also differing preferences for different type of liners, their wear-life difficulty / easiness of the replacement and so on.

Therefore, chute work arrangement design & construction receives utmost attention in design office to achieve proper working of the equipment and necessary life and reasonably easy maintenance for the chute work.

I would also like to state that while formulating the general approach for chute design, it should not get focussed on specific material, to which one is exposed. The chute requirement can widely differ for material like grain, limestone, granite, coal, powdery material, sticky material and so on.

The chute design demands excellent technical knowledge combined with artistic abilities.

I think the above information will be of use.

Regards,

Ishwar G Mulani.

Author of Book : Engineering Science and Application Design for Belt Conveyors.

Author of Book : Belt Feeder Design and Hopper Bin Silo

Advisor / Consultant for Bulk Material Handling System & Issues.

Email : parimul@pn2.vsnl.net.in

Tel.: 0091 (0)20 25882916 ■

I've just been reading "Sutcliffes Manual of Belt Conveying" by Harold Streets, 1956 WR Chambers & Co, Edinburgh. Apart from no colour photography (black & white plates they were called) its almost bang up to date.

It contains a wonderful expression "the coal is quiescent upon the belt & requires no further supervision". How often does that happen these days? ■

Dear Mr. John

i am interested to know more about chute design for equal material distribution, reduced wear etc. i would like to share my experience with you to write a handbook on chute design.

Kindly let me know the basic information regarding curved chute design.

regards,

dharma

gasiv2001@yahoo.co.in ■

Just because it is not pulbished does not mean there is no advancement. Discrete ELement Method (DEM) and other discontinuum mechanics modeling does give the user the necessary command of flow analysis and design coordination.

Since there is a significant investment in this technology, and its directives, the designs become intellectual property. There are many factors in controlling granular flow, which dictate/quantify designs not found in texts:

1. Maximizing Belt Wear Life

2. Minimizing Dust Emissions

3. Centering load and aligning/tracking belt to idler center

4. Punture & Rip Damage protection

5. Maximizing material crossectional capacity

6. Stabilizing ore on incline loading against spillage from rollback

7. Minimizing impact idler damage

8. Minimizing skirt seal damage

9. Minimizing liner wear damage / maximizing liner life

10. Selection of liner wear resistant materials by quantiying stress

As has been stated many times, the chute has a very important role in conveyor design. DEM gives necessary insight into alternative design concepts that are not normally practiced and are not found in publications.

By example, how does the ancient texts quantify the necessary geometry of curved chutes, given the many attributes the curvature and other chute geometry conditions have in the above

controls? ■

Another point of interest: How do you assess the tradeoff of chute geometries, wear $$ and power savings?

Well conceived chute geometries also save power by conserving the granular flow kinetic energy from the initial exit velocity, its gravity acceleration within the chute and then preserve this energy at the delivery to the receiving belt thereby improving the receiving belt power.

This can be many kW and is proportional to tonnage, drop height and belt speeds. This sum can amount to upwards of $20,000 NPV assuming 5000 hours /yr operation and $0.10 kW-hr over 10-15 years. ■

Another point is the ability to quantify degradation of the product during its transfer in a chute, loading in a truck, rail car, stockpile or bin, etc.

DEM can provide the impact and shear energy spectra that can be converted to breakage and chipping by particle size. More of the missing links not found in ancient scrolls.

Ba Humbug. ■

I am not sure if you mean FEM (finite element method) when I stated DEM (discrete element method).

FEM can simulate some continuum flow behavior. It cannot, to my knowledge, simulate sliding wear, when the granular flow stream is dynamically changing. DEM can.

Wear prediction, of granular flow, has many attributes above the few you list. The a,b,c points are all addressed in DEM simulation. See our website for some details.

www.conveyor-dynamics.com

We are about to post a family of chute flow illustrations. This was promised before. We will now deliver. I will see if we can also include a questionaire that is typically issued to customers for granular flow design projects. ■

John,

Though its late, would like to share "Some Thoughts on Chute Design Philosophy" (see attachment). I have already used many man hours to design chutes mainly for coal application. It's vary complex to become sure about the flow characteristics of the material tested at the laboratory based on the sample collected. Starts giving problem at the practical application scenario due to change in material properties, design fault, maintenance problem etc........... I would appreciate to have a copy of your book once finished (either a PDF copy over e-mail or hard copy).

Thanks,

Attachments

some thoughts on chute design philosophy (ZIP)

■

I see that your proposal in the Bulk-online forum, to put together a document on chute design, has sparked a great deal of interest. This is a subject that has been considered to need attention by the British Materials Handling Board, which has published various solids handling guide books, such as on Segregation, Attrition, IBC's, Screw Feeders, Dust Handling and the like. If you were willing to be the lead author of such a book, I am sure that the BMHB would be prepared to finance the publication. This topic was also suggested by John Gately, who is a regular contributor to this forum and I would be pleased to co-operate in its production, perhaps as editor if you approve.

I look forward to your response with much interest. ■

Sutcliffe’s Manual of Belt Conveying. I have a copy of that too. It sits on my bookshelf beside my copy of Belt Conveyors and Belt Elevators by Hetzel, 1926.

Very interesting reading, both books.

I am sure much of the basic information in those texts does still apply, though there has been quite a bit of progress since.

With respect to transfer chute design, I think that it would be an optimist who would consider that an initial design will work perfectly and stand for all time.

Things change. Production rates increase. New products come on line. Mining takes place below the water table. In rains, it is hot and dry. New plant is brought on-stream. Shift schedules change.

In the course of these evolutionary changes, it is often the case that modifications to chutes are made ‘on the run’ and that the results can be hit and miss. Furthermore, with the rapid turnover of personnel on many sites, the same ah hoc solutions recur and meet with similar fates at regular intervals. Maybe even back to 1956 in some cases!

I am not the first person to express the view that overall transfer chute performance depends on a number of factors. Amongst these are are: design, materials, operating practice and maintenance practice.

Physical modelling can provide a cost effective way of exploring options for design change. It will not solve all problems for all people.

It will comfortably predict flow behaviour for free flowing granular materials. With a few tricks and some experience it can be turned to assessing the effects of cohesive materials.

It will not predict wear mechanisms and rates for particular chute materials against particular conveyed materials. Neither could the best equipped laboratory, IMHO.

It will not predict the effect of excursions in operating practice. But such issues may well be critical and need to be considered as part of the overall approach to improved performance. In the case of mining operations, it is my observation that the control of process water has the most profound influence on operations and that no design can be guaranteed to overcome the effect of poor water control.

In conclusion; I believe that design is important and there are tools to investigate it, but it is only part of a much broader set of issues.

I wish you well with your book John, and would be happy to assist if I can. I do hope that you will make some mention of the other issues that need to be considered along with design and perhaps mention that no designer can hope to get it right 100 percent of the time. Who cannot point to examples of failures of the most experienced designers? It can be a risky business, lets be honest. ■

Respondents have given valuable information, suggestions etc. I would like to draw the attention to the issue of maintenance and replacement relating to chute work and its components.

About two decades back, manufacturers in India extensively marketed their liner products of various types like rubber, UHMW, steel etc. Consequently, many of owners of the coal handling plants were impressed by such matter and there were chutes at single place comprising of various types of liners, shapes, fixing etc. Finally buyer found such thing very difficult to maintain and replace. Eventually, as I know today, buyer is opting for simpler kind of things, which can be easily maintained. So, my suggestion to the engineers is that the item construction and specification should be decided in such a manner where its maintenance and replacement receives importance equal to the operational aspect; because this is a wear item (where abrasive materials are involved).

Regards,

Ishwar G Mulani.

Author of Book : Engineering Science and Application Design for Belt Conveyors.

Author of Book : Belt Feeder Design and Hopper Bin Silo

Advisor / Consultant for Bulk Material Handling System & Issues.

Email : parimul@pn2.vsnl.net.in

Tel.: 0091 (0)20 25882916 ■

How do we get 6.086??

Surely it must be a whole number not a decimal? ■

Vince

Thank you for pointing out that the link in my post #8 was no longer valid. It was when I first posted it but must have changed since then - I have edited my post to correct the link - so either one will work now.

Gary ■

Regarding the above post from last year, I'm just wondering if you have made any progression with your venture?

I look forward to your response.

(Another) Gary ■

Hi John,

Sorry if I'm being a bit slow, but I've run a search on the Cospire site and am failing to find an Engineering Tips group- does the group still exist? Or maybe I need a "Key" to join?

Thanks in advance for any help on the matter.

Gary ■

Thank heavens for that, I thought it was just me being thick when I also failed. ■

Hi there John..

I am prepared to help you in your splendid venture.

Cheers

LSL Tekpro ■

John, I have co-authored 3 books on belt conveyors and chute design. I would be happy to assist in any way. Please e-mail me your draft.

Mesut ÜNAL

e-mail:info@rulosan.com.tr

RULOSAN MACHINERY ■

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Originally Posted by John Cumberlege

We have a 50 page Word document first draft (300 kB). The text is based on the work of Dick Stahura of Martin Engineering, and the First International Chute Design Conference sponsored by the Bionic Research Institute in South Africa. We will probably link in with the West Australian School of Mines, and Prof A W Roberts at TUNRA.

We expect the Handbook would be about 200 - 300 pages, heavily illustrated with drawings and working details.

John Rozentals

email: rozentalsjj@yahoo.com.au

Dear John

Can I get the handbook for study as in similar case study we are doing in our project .

Regards

Shakti Prakash Naik ■

Originally Posted by larryg

John, I have co-authored 3 books on belt conveyors and chute design. I would be happy to assist in any way. Please e-mail me your draft.

Larry J. Goldbeck

Martin Engineering

e-mail: larryg@martin-eng.com

Cell: 734-604-0914

Dear Larry

It would be an asset for me if you can share the books.

Regards

S.P.Naik ■

Originally Posted by shakti naik

Dear John

Can I get the handbook for study as in similar case study we are doing in our project .

Regards

Shakti Prakash Naik

The completed book is available here. http://conveyertransferdesign.com/ ■

Dear Shakti,

Gary is right about where to get the design manual (it can also be obtained from the website below as they are both linked). The book "The Transfer Chute Design Manual" was published about 4 years ago and while initiated by John Rozentals it was co-authored by John, Dr Shams Huque, Peter Donecker and myself. It has now been sent to over 30 countries around the world and led to ongoing research and empirical studies particularly by myself and Peter. These have led to separate papers one of which is in the Whitepaper section of the the Forum (page3). There is work being done as we talk at a University looking at aspects of what we a have done and a major trial that will be completed early next year. Once this has been completed there will be a major addendum published for the Manual.

Cheers

Colin Benjamin

Gulf Conveyor Systems Pty Ltd

www.conveyorsystemstechnology.com ■

Dear Mr. John,

If need help, I will be very appreciated to help you for this good subject. There are lots of documents i found from internet and others sources. If it's possible i want to see your summaried documents.

Cemgil

sdemir ron and Steel Works ■