I part designed a 1500 th^-1 waggon loader for Whatley Quarries, Fome, Somerset back in 1987. That was a rail mounted slewing unit with high visibility cab requirements. The concept was over the top, but the customer got what he wanted. I suspect you are looking for something much simpler. It is a simple affair once the loading rates are known.

Dust control depends on your throughputs: whether the trucks are run through or standing still. Faster loading means less dust. ■

You can contact Nordic Mine Technology. They will be able to solve your query. They build equipment all over the world.



Nordic Mine Technology Inc.

4530 Hwy 11 North

North Bay, Ontario

Canada

P1B 8G3

TEL: (705) 474-2777

FAX: (705) 474-5083

E-MAIL: sales@nordicmine.com

WEB: www.nordicmine.com ■

Originally Posted by STapsall

Dear all,

I have a question similar to that posed by Gareth last month.

We are looking at alternatives to front-end loaders to load concentrate into trains. The concentrates may include copper, zinc, lead and magnetite. We are particularly interested in minimising dust, and spillage onto the wagons. A front-end loader can still be used to load the system, but not the train itself.

Does anyone know of any facilities that load concentrates into trains using conveyors/bins/chutes? If so, can you please provide details of the operator and location.

Thanks in advance,

Scott Tapsall

==================================================================================================== ====================================================================

If you have the opportunity you should visit the Powder River Basin of Wyoming and Montana to see a lot of world class train loading for 10,000+ cars per day using flood loading.

The least costly and lowest maintenance type of system

would use a hopper fed conveyance system involving the following

items.

A bulk hopper feeding a very small apron feeder in turn feeding a 24 inch belt

conveyor feeding telescoping loading spout I will explain why in great detail for you.

1. The hopper recieves the bulk loading in massive quantities and prevents

massive surges to the down stream loading system as well as PLUGGING AND JAM UPS!!!

The recieving hopper will be:

1. installed above ground level using a waste rock or simply sacrificing a bit of concentrate

to create the loading area for the hopper

2. The 24 inch apron feeder will be installed on a permanent concrete foundation

which will also permit the anchoring the of the tail pulley of the take away belt

feeding the telescoping chute.

An Apron Feeder can provide the operator with a regulated flow of material

to the 24 inch belt conveyor and works reliably for thousands of hours before

needing any maintenance.

(There is a tiny bit of disagreement among the some of members here about feeders and

feeder types and their efficiencies, but in the end we are all friends here involved or interested in the movement of bulk commodities and aggregates.)

A small Apron Feeder 24 inches wide and lets say 10 feet long(3 meters)for those of

you in OZ thank you Jimmy Carter for not implementing the Metric System in the colonies!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!) under a rectangular hopper fed by the front end loader

would be more than adequate for this allowing the hopper to accumulate 10 to 15 cubic meters of concentrate in the above ground hoppper.

The 24 inch Belt Conveyor would have belt covers to prevent dust from escaping along its length to the head pulley prior to the telescoping loading chute. feeding the concentrate to

the hopper car.

You could have a hoop shed installed to cover the hopper to railcar loading area

to eliminate the need for a covered belt conveyor but you would have a bit of a

mess to clean up every day or fortnight.

The telescoping loading chute would or could have clamshell gate to stop the flow of the material.

In your initial inquiry you have not mentioned whether your loading point is-

a. a parallel siding to the main line using lcomotives for motive power or a manual or

remote controlled railcar mover witha wire rope tugger or below grade pusher as is used

by the Joy(formerly know as JR STAMLER)railcar movers.

b. a single loop exiting a main line turnout and returing to a second mainline turnout

behind the entry left or right hand turnout using a loop with a locomotive consist for

motive power.

c. using a twin loop with locomotives and empty cars on the

exterior loop and locomotives and loaded cars on the interior loop.

d. your own dedicated switchers using radio remote control and M.U. connections

in excess of 6000 horse power per unit also controlled by the loader operator

e. a spotter with a radio communications with engineer operating the consist on the siding. ■

Originally Posted by STapsall

Thanks for the information so far.

We are speaking with Halley & Mellowes, Schenck Process and Nordic about the loading systems, and Metso about a train indexer. But I would really like to tell our clients that this is being done elsewhere to give them the confidence that concentrates can be loaded in this fashion. They may want to visit other facilities as part of the design progression.

The trains will be loaded on a dedicated siding, within a large multi-user rail facility (off the mainline). How we control the train movement is yet to be determined (locomotive or indexer).

Thanks,

Scott

As I stated the Powder River Basin Coal mines in Wyoming and Montana

are the world class examples you can point to directly.

Where exactly is this facility?

What do you mean by a multi-user facilty?

Please expand on this statement.

Is there a warehouse depot at this railhead location for

a large variety goods in box car loads?

Is the Genesee and Wyoming Railway Company one of the users of the state owned

railline?

You will be money ahead and with zero aggravation if you use a car spotter

from Joy Global as they do not use wire rope to move ther cars in either direction using

pusher bars connected to hydraulic cylinders that travel under the railcars pushing

against the axles to move the cars as the car advances the pusher bar lowers and

returns to the starting point to push against the next rail car axle to advance it in either direction.

The Joy Rail Car Spotter can be controlled manually or by remote control if desired and is easy to install

as it sits within the rail bed of the siding. ■

Originally Posted by STapsall

Dear all,

.......We are particularly interested in minimising dust, and spillage onto the wagons. A front-end loader can still be used to load the system, but not the train itself.

Excuse me, if you feed the system with a front end loader aren't you just shifting the spillage a little bit upstream....& duplicating the dust potential? If you manage to get material into the high level, energy wasteful, hoppers, bins, whatever, without dust then surely you would be able to use that same ingenuity to shovel it into the cars in a similar cleaner fashion.

Correct me, but, in early days material was thrown into the waggons without any of the provisions now required. The operation proves itself & long term operation is now on the cards. Cleanliness is the order of the brave new world.

The main issue with dust & train loading is locomotive headroom. Once the loco is through, the discharge can be low enough for effecient dust control. All the experts will show you equipment fixed over the track: thereby lifting your discharge level & offering you a dust problem greater than you really need. There are better ways that would not offer so much interference with existing foundations & accesses. Or you could just leave it to the experts....and the client. ■

Originally Posted by STapsall

lzaharis,

I'd rather not go into specifics as this is a new facility and not public knowledge. But I will say that it is in Australia. We have plenty of coal train loading facilities we can see, but I really need information on concentrate loading facilities.

Thank you for the information on the Joy Car Spotter, I will follow up on that.

++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ ++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ +++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++

Your mixing apples and oranges and their both fruits. Coal loading on rail cars is no different than loading

other ores, its simply a bit lighter.

If you want to to see ore loadings visit the iron range in the state of Minnesota

in the United States or the LKAB iron ore operations in Sweden.

The issue of concentrate loading involves the clay used to bind the iron ore concentrate together.

The only way you will solve the dust issue forever and eliminate train washing will be to use covered hoppers such

as are used in food grain haulage, plastic pellet haulage, and fertiliser prill haulage by rail. ■

Originally Posted by STapsall

The size distribution would be quite different to coal (this is concentrate from a filter plant),

so I would have thought the chute angles and potentially feeders and gates would need to

be a bit different to coal?

The rail wagons have covers that are removed just prior to loading, and replaced soon after

loading.

It all drops by gravity if you have the elevation for same.

The simplest forms of loading would be counterweight

operated chutes as is done in the great lakes to load

the "Lakers" where an entire battery of chutes is used

to load the ships hold one hatch at a time.

What will be the total weight of the loaded hopper cars -265,000 pounds?,

using a 65,000 pound empty hopper car?

Are you going to be using 100 ton bathtub gondola cars or

bottom gate hopper cars? this is also going to affect the

decisions you make as you have not discussed whether

you have 70-80-100 ton hopper cars or ore jennies

for that matter as you wil be moving concentrates.

What you need to do is establish negative pressure at all

times within the loading area and a dust suction cone at

the end of the loading bellows or counter weighted chute

could accomplish this for you at all times except when the

loading is done and the bellows is retracted chute is raised

with the winch.

The thing is the drop chute as used by coal fueled locomotives

is the simplest least costly way to load a railcar as the volume

of the hopper is a known quantity just as the volume of the

railcar is a known quantity.

You could simply build a hopper with four chutes that would have

1/4 the capacity of the car filling the the car one chute at a time

in a couple of seconds and then winching them back up out of

the way.

The top of the bin could be filled by a 24 inch conveyor using

a tripper with a sealed operators cabin.

Using a 4 bin elevated drop chute set up the conveyor would

not take all that long to fill the four bins and the drop chutes

would never have spillage problem UNLESS the wire rope that

is used to raise and lower it breaks-AND by by the way wire

rope lasts for a long time as long as its oiled occasionally.

What is happening is the build up of simple charges of

static electricity with the dust adhering to existing dirt

on the open top hopper car in this case.

The only serious way to handle this would be to employ

the use of suction hoods along the sides of the hopper cars

to collest as much dust as possible as the cars are being

loaded and the dust being pulled along by the pressure

gradient created by the system being directed directly

to large cyclones to permit the full extraction of the

dust particles.

The cyclones would be tied together in parallel with or

without bag house and electrostatic precipitator for

final extraction.

The same cyclones and precipitator discharge(if used)

would have a loading bellows that would be manually

winched up when the six loading hatches are filled to

capacity and then winched out of the way for the car

to be switched.

Adequate grounding would have to be provided for

to prevent static electricity build up within the

loading shed and railcar in any case.

As far as train car washing is concerned its not a hard

thing to do. we have been washing trucks in

washing chambers here for a while now wherein

the truck hauling waste spoils is driven onto the

washing station and the entire trucks is washed

using fan type fire hose nozzles and the pool

below the truck collects all the dirt, oil and debris.

A simple shallow collection pit with fiber glass grating

to walk on could be employed using submerged 3 inch

air operated diaphram pumps with inlet suction screens

to wash the railcars using fan nozzles.

A septic system pumping truck could be used to empty the

pit of solids using a centrfugal pump to break up the soilds

in the bottom of the shallow pit.

The issue is one you will have to discuss with the railroad

operating company as that much water is going to be an issue

because of the boxcar bearings on the wheel sets as the bearings

AND Brake pads are not supposed to be exposed to water at the

wheel level. You would have be sure that the wash water is only sprayed

along the side of the hopper cars and the two ends. ■

Originally Posted by STapsall

Louis,

Yes, there will still be a dust concern where the FELs operate, but they will be operating in an enclosed stockpile shed with a dust collection system. The concern is getting dust or spillage on the rail wagons. Similar operations currently load the train using FELs inside the shed, with the potential for dust or spillage remaining on the wagons as they exit the shed. The Department of Environment is now pushing for trains loaded in that manner to be washed before leaving site. Water is an scarce/expensive commodity in some of these regions, so our clients are looking for alternatives to train washing.

Our goal is to separate the stockpile shed and the trains. That is why we are looking for information on conveyor/bin/train loadout style operations that currently exist for concentrates.

Other benefits should include more even loading of the wagons, and less chance of underloading or overloading. Our concept also includes a self-retracting telescopic chute with dust collection system to avoid the issues of excessive discharge height due to locomotive clearance requirements.

.....the cat out of the bag. If your client has multiple ore loading operations then either he owns the rairoad or at least the rolling stock. Your only concern is spllage, if you are running through dry zones then there will be enough dust about beyond the building. On that basis the DoE should wash the cars for you periodically along the route. 'Nuff said there. Spillage inside the sheds can be cleaned up inside the sheds.

Now you have thrown loadout into the equation. Like most of them your client is asking for a Merc at a Ford price. In the end he will have to put cards and cash on the table and go talk to a specialist. The forum needs more specifics. Look at the cock up already there: punter forks out for a huge shed...To protect the ore from UV?

Wash water is no less precious the process water, recycle it like the quarries and car washes in Europe have to. It's not rocket science...ask K'Archer or somebody with a similar sounding name. ■