Back-Driven Gearbox And Motor System

Erstellt am 22. Jul. 2016 - 12:46

if a conveyor includes 2 drives, which one of them is working and the other is off, the silent motor and gearbox will be driven by the belt.

Questions:

Is there any person experienced this situation?

Does it make any problem for beveled helical gearbox and motor?

Re: Belt Conveyor Drive

Erstellt am 25. Jul. 2016 - 07:02

Is there any idea?

Is my question clear?

Re: Belt Conveyor Drive

Erstellt am 25. Jul. 2016 - 02:11

1. For "reasons", in the absence of specific guidance from OEMs [that I could obtain], I have used a "conservative" approach of calculating the power loss at rated conditions, and then assuming this power is constant despite either the: load, or speed; and

You need to verify the validity for your application.

2. Despite that I have my reservations, I am aware of OEMs specifying otherwise, hence I propose you consult the same.

I propose there may be other issues to consider, including: load cases reflect the intended operation, inertia of the drive if trying to "push" it with the belt [pull it from the other side], and verifying there is no "back" EMF [or if there is, it does not matter/can be managed etc].

Regards,

Lyle

More Information

Erstellt am 25. Jul. 2016 - 09:44

Let me explain more:

Given: a reversible belt conveyor with 300m length

Problem: Drive selection

one solution can be:

using 2 drives, one of them on tail and the other on head, one for running the conveyor to the left and the other for right.

when the conveyor should be run to the left, the drive on head will be in operation and the drive on tail will be off. In this case the belt forces the gearbox and motor on the tail pulley to rotate.

My question:

what is your idea about this solution?

have you ever experienced similar one?

can it make problem for the gearbox and hydro-coupling?

Re: Belt Conveyor Drive

Erstellt am 26. Jul. 2016 - 11:46

Dear Masoomeh Mohandes,

-a freewheel clutch/coupling

-a centrifugal coupling

-drain the oil from the non-driving hydraulic coupling

The final design and the controls of the system must be checked for all circumstances s.a. operational situations, braking situations. failure situations, etc.

The location of the coupling and the brake(s) is of importance in a dual drive system with one drive uncoupled.

In case the non-driving gearbox is running during operation, the lubrication must be maintained.

Further, all engineering skills are needed to design such an installation.

(By an experienced engineer)

Have a nice day

Teus

More Clarification

Erstellt am 27. Jul. 2016 - 08:50

Dear Teus,

Many thanks for your attention.

You mean that:

1- the system couldn't work without clutch (the gearbox and motor rotate freely) ?

2- the hydro-coupling couldn't work when driven because of belt tension? why you said the oil of hydro-coupling should

Re: Belt Conveyor Drive

Erstellt am 27. Jul. 2016 - 09:43

Dear Masoomeh Mohandes,

1- the system couldn't work without clutch (the gearbox and motor rotate freely) ?

If the drives operate without a clutch (fixed connection), then the non-driving e-motor and gearbox rotate and are driven by the belt.

This requires enough belt tension to drive the idle e-motor and gearbox.

Also the starting time is increased, because of the extra coupled moment of inertia.

2- the hydro-coupling couldn't work when driven because of belt tension? why you said the oil of hydro-coupling should

A hydro coupling only transmits a torque when filled (Fill-controlled fluid couplings).

see: http://www.voith.com/en/products-ser...ngs-10048.html

By draining the oil from such a coupling, there is no torque transmitted and the respective e-motor is uncoupled.

The gear box is still rotating, driven by the belt, as the fill controlled hydro coupling will be mounted in the high speed shaft (e-motor)

Whatever design you choose, a thorough calculation of various belt conveyor systems must be executed (by an experienced and well-known supplier).

Take care

Teus

Re: Belt Conveyor Drive

Erstellt am 27. Jul. 2016 - 11:57
Quote Originally Posted by Teus TuinenburgView Post


A hydro coupling only transmits a torque when filled (Fill-controlled fluid couplings).

By draining the oil from such a coupling, there is no torque transmitted and the respective e-motor is uncoupled.

The gear box is still rotating, driven by the belt, as the fill controlled hydro coupling will be mounted in the high speed shaft (e-motor)

Yes I know hydro-coupling operation principle, however my question is if we don't drain the oil, the hydro-coupling will be in operation and transfer rotation to the motor, does it have any problem for hydro-coupling and motor?

The motor is squirrel cage and I don't think it makes any problem if it rotates freely from shaft, isn't it?

Re: Belt Conveyor Drive

Erstellt am 27. Jul. 2016 - 12:45

Dear Masoomeh Mohandes,


if we don't drain the oil, the hydro-coupling will be in operation and transfer rotation to the motor, does it have any problem for hydro-coupling and motor?

Depends on the type of the hydro coupling.

Here, the hydro coupling manufacturer should be consulted.


The motor is squirrel cage and I don't think it makes any problem if it rotates freely from shaft, isn't it?

A squirrel cage electric motor should be able to run (reversely driven from the belt), when not connected to the power supply.

There might be some voltage induced on the terminals by remnant magnetism.

Anyway, the e-motor manufacturer should be consulted

In general: When applying equipment, the equipment manufacturers must always be informed about the application design and asked for comment. (at least for the guarantee)

Take care

Teus

Teus

Re: Belt Conveyor Drive

Erstellt am 31. Jul. 2016 - 11:25

Dear Masoomeh Mohandes,

I would suggest that you may install both side drives. Both drives can operate in forward and reverse direction.

Keep one drive decoupled at the slow speed coupling , i.e., between drive pulley and gearbox output shaft, so that it can be kept as stand by. If another drive meets any problem, decouple the defective drive and couple the stand by drive.

In my humble opinion, I will not suggest to drain oil from fluid couplings. Fluid couplings have bearings and oil seals. Running fluid couplings without oil can damage their bearings and seals.

Wish to have feedbacks and comments from experts.

Thanks & Regards,

Re: Belt Conveyor Drive

Erstellt am 31. Jul. 2016 - 12:45

Dear Masoomeh Mohandes, sganesh,

Driving a reversible belt conveyor should be possible from one end as Mr. sganesh suggests.

However (I am not an expert in belt conveyors as a have limited experience with belt conveyors in the very past), I doubt that this is possible under all circumstances.

If the belt is inclined, the conveyed mass on the belt reduces the belt tension towards the lower driving end, thus reducing the maximum torque transmission from the lower drum to the belt.

This can only be compensated for by an increased belt tension, requiring a stronger belt.

Again, any design requires a thorough calculation by an experienced and skilled engineer.

And Mrs Masoomeh Mohandes asked for an opinion on a dual drive system (forward and reverse)

Though, it seems to be a very interesting subject, which I follow here with great interest.

(If I am wrong, I would like to hear that)

Have a nice day

Teus