If the belt and structure are properly designed - none.

Your question is like asking if I buy a car and drive it down the road will I have problems.

You have supplied no information. ■

Are you asking about in-line or off-set idler geometry and the misapplication of the off-set idler orientation?

First, 5-roll in-line have no (less) troughing issues (than 3-rolls) as noted by Mr. Blenkhorn. The more gradual shape change means more contact with all rolls = better tracking. Think of the belt as a bent spring. Light bending produces less distortion or lifting of the belt from the idler surface. Think of the radius of curvature being constant (bending stiffness). A smaller included angle will have less belt separated from contact with the rolls.

Second, 5-roll offset have been misapplied where some engineers promote the center and outer wing rolls to be placed trailing the belt motion direction. This can produce adverse or poor tracking. The concept is similar to a 3-roll offset, just less so. In the three roll offset, the center roll must be oriented to contact the belt first at each idler station. In this way, the belt geometry bends to cup the belt forward, as viewed from a plan view. This acts in a similar way to forward tilting of the idler frame.

5-equal roll idler sets have lower capacity than a three roll idler set. ■

Originally Posted by nordell

Are you asking about in-line or off-set idler geometry and the misapplication of the off-set idler orientation?

First, 5-roll in-line have no (less) troughing issues (than 3-rolls) as noted by Mr. Blenkhorn. The more gradual shape change means more contact with all rolls = better tracking. Think of the belt as a bent spring. Light bending produces less distortion or lifting of the belt from the idler surface. Think of the radius of curvature being constant (bending stiffness). A smaller included angle will have less belt separated from contact with the rolls.

Second, 5-roll offset have been misapplied where some engineers promote the center and outer wing rolls to be placed trailing the belt motion direction. This can produce adverse or poor tracking. The concept is similar to a 3-roll offset, just less so. In the three roll offset, the center roll must be oriented to contact the belt first at each idler station. In this way, the belt geometry bends to cup the belt forward, as viewed from a plan view. This acts in a similar way to forward tilting of the idler frame.

5-equal roll idler sets have lower capacity than a three roll idler set.

I have been reading these comments for many years now and have never registered until now, because I have seen and experienced idler frame designs from different Engineering companies.

I agree with Mr Gary Blenkhorn on the design, because you can not compromise on the most critical aspect in conveyor structure design. Sorry Mr Nordell but I believe that the 5-roll trough has a higher loading capacity then the 3-roll trough, which is proven and can be shown on a 2D profile layout, if applied correctly.

Unfortunately companies always use Engineers from consulting companies to come up with expensive ways to improve on their conveyor structures, but forget about the guys on the plant who have all the skills and knowledge of all maintenance issues including plant stoppers.

As an Artisan I have developed a way for companies to spend less on consulting and rather focus on in-house development, which can save money, increase production and decrease risks. I know that my concept is already out in the market, but it is much cheaper to fabricate and guaranteed to be safe and maintenance friendly(efficient and effective). Tis simple retractable impact idler design is so much stronger then most high speed designs and even out-lasts most impact beds out in the market. Additional costs are kept to a minimum and is guaranteed to exceed the current impact idler and conveyor belt (fabric/steel cord) life. It has a higher impact rate then impact beds, which can't handle high speed belts with high impacts.

All designs with have wearing parts in them, but what if you don't have to worry about maintenance on your impact areas for at least 6 months... There is an answer to high impact areas and spillage control.

Let me know if you all are interested to know the simple secret to solving your problems? I am willing to show and explain my concept and why I believe it to be your answer to most of your belt impact problems.

Ashwell Stallenberg

ambulkconsult@gmail.com

SA: +27731494411 ■

Dear Mr. Stallenberg,

I think I speak/post in the name of many belt conveyor users:

Please show and explain your concept and take as much space and photos/figures as you may need.

Our Portal is aiming at publishing solid engineering facts and data and I believe that at least in the field of Belt Conveyor Technology we are doing a good job. "We" are the many Forum Contributors and Moderators. Thanks to all of you!

Reinhard Wohlbier

Administrator

https://who.bulk-online.com/profile/...-wohlbier.html

https://who.bulk-online.com/discussi...-wohlbier.html ■

Originally Posted by Ashwell

I have been reading these comments for many years now and have never registered until now, because I have seen and experienced idler frame designs from different Engineering companies.

I agree with Mr Gary Blenkhorn on the design, because you can not compromise on the most critical aspect in conveyor structure design. Sorry Mr Nordell but I believe that the 5-roll trough has a higher loading capacity then the 3-roll trough, which is proven and can be shown on a 2D profile layout, if applied correctly.

Unfortunately companies always use Engineers from consulting companies to come up with expensive ways to improve on their conveyor structures, but forget about the guys on the plant who have all the skills and knowledge of all maintenance issues including plant stoppers.

As an Artisan I have developed a way for companies to spend less on consulting and rather focus on in-house development, which can save money, increase production and decrease risks. I know that my concept is already out in the market, but it is much cheaper to fabricate and guaranteed to be safe and maintenance friendly(efficient and effective). Tis simple retractable impact idler design is so much stronger then most high speed designs and even out-lasts most impact beds out in the market. Additional costs are kept to a minimum and is guaranteed to exceed the current impact idler and conveyor belt (fabric/steel cord) life. It has a higher impact rate then impact beds, which can't handle high speed belts with high impacts.

All designs with have wearing parts in them, but what if you don't have to worry about maintenance on your impact areas for at least 6 months... There is an answer to high impact areas and spillage control.

Let me know if you all are interested to know the simple secret to solving your problems? I am willing to show and explain my concept and why I believe it to be your answer to most of your belt impact problems.

Ashwell Stallenberg

ambulkconsult@gmail.com

SA: +27731494411

-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Dear Ashwell,

Are you mixing concepts?

I claim 5-roll configuration (assume all roll lengths are equal and trough angles are equal for simplicity) will have a lower carrying capacity, but can have a higher load bearing capacity, for same size bearing groups. There are published standards on cross-sectional capacities for both 3 and 5 rolls. In fact, when you augment a 3 roll with shortened center length, you hit an optimum=maximum carry capacity for a given belt width.

5-roll configuration is often used when the individual roll mass becomes too cumbersome for maintenance crews, as is the case in Australia, where roll mass limits are imposed.

5-roll, with equal bearing/shaft sizes, will obviously carry greater load at the same L-10 life.

---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

I do not understand your statement: "Unfortunately companies always use Engineers from consulting companies to come up with expensive ways to improve on their conveyor structures". By inference you suggest not to use Engineers? I understand your point, but, the conclusion is illogical. Many of us practice "review and improvement" techniques, but, realize it is harder to get it right the first time.

Transfer chutes have been the ugly duckling for operators until recent developments in granular physics have shown impact and wear mechanics are measurable. Once measurable, ideas are born of how to improve by steps to optimize geometries, chute liner properties and wear improvements, dust generation and mitigation, ore placement that guarantees better tracking and spillage control. Measures include cohesion (bonding between granules) and adhesion (bonding to walls) that guide the Engineer on methods that preclude pluggage as moisture laden materials fool the novice. Measurable forces can now quantify wear of belt and liner surfaces and can guide the Engineer on protecting the belt against puncture damage. You can see some examples of ROCKY DEM granular mechanics software on YouTube or our website regarding the above as well as our shared publications on the above.

We all anticipate your presentation of Artisan skills and thank you in advance for sharing. ■

Thank you all for responding. Please allow me the opportunity to explain myself to you all, because it is a privilege for me to be in contact with such high profile individuals.

I am excited and willing to share ideas and always willing to find the best solution to endless bulk material handling problems, because I know that no design is perfect and even the best concepts/products fail under normal circumstances.

I have recently experienced major disappointment in a well know product (DRX3000 impact bed), which was installed incorrectly and even after trying to convince a group of engineers who were in charge of that specific project, it has failed numerous times since installed in May of this year. Just to explain what has happened and why the installed DRX3000 has failed, was for the simple reason that it was installed on a high impact conveyor with now supporting idler frames on either side. The closest impact frame is spaced almost 1m away from the impact beds on either side and what I understand about the DRX3000 is that it can only handle belt speeds up to 3m/s... please correct me if I'm wrong. It is never good to have such a good and well-known product failing under normal operation.

I hope you all understand where I heading with this, because it is highly imperative that all companies with such huge outputs understand and know what they need in order to make a conveyor/fixed plant run without all these nuisance trips and/or stoppages. Misunderstanding of bulk materials and products used in different application can have huge impacts on any company's aim to deliver.

Unfortunately I am not working for this company anymore, but I know that it is of high importance for OEM's to know what is happening in the mining industry and mainly to fix what is wrong.

Being in maintenance for so long allowed me to learn and understand how important it is to have a plant which is good to look at, without even having to worry about who is standing behind me. I take pride in my job and always strive to deliver the best and if not, continuously improve and find a better solution to any problem no matter how big or small and I also believe that [B]a clean plant is a safe plant.'

The reason why I mentioned the 3- and 5-roll troughing configuration is because we were experiencing endless ore spillages and tail end belt misalignment problems, which had a huge impact on the plant's performance. Please understand why I mentioning this, because I have a passion for mining maintenance and I would really want this company to achieve its set target and reach outputs beyond what is expected.

Personally I believe that a 5-roll configuration with up to 60degree troughing angle can deliver/handle higher loading rates, depending on the troughing angle than the 3-roll 45degree troughing idler configuration. It is more expensive, but more effective.

I am saying this because I have played around with some 2D designs by comparing the two configurations where the 5-roll trough shows a +18% increase in volume, which is huge and can even double the output on a 1200mm belt with 3-roll 45degeree troughing angle configuration.

I am happy to mention that I have proof of my concept which is currently out-lasting the DRX3000 on two different conveyor and would gladly send proof to anyone interested in drawings and pictures.

This is a huge achievement for me to have had the opportunity to finally implement a simple and most effective system of retractable inline impact idler frames, which is safe and easy to maintain. The best news about it is that it has never been touched since installation in May of this year and minimum to zero downtime recorded.

Please find my set of frames in image attached?

For more information on simple and effective innovations, please contact me and will gladly send you all my ideas and drawings.

Ashwell Stallenberg

ashwell.craig@gmail.com | ashwells@amecs.co.za ■

Thank you all for responding. Please allow me the opportunity to explain myself to you all, because it is a privilege for me to be in contact with such high profile individuals.

I am excited and willing to share ideas and always willing to find the best solution to endless bulk material handling problems, because I know that no design is perfect and even the best concepts/products fail under normal circumstances.

I have recently experienced major disappointment in a well know product (DRX3000 impact bed), which was installed incorrectly and even after trying to convince a group of engineers who were in charge of that specific project, it has failed numerous times since installed in May of this year. Just to explain what has happened and why the installed DRX3000 has failed, was for the simple reason that it was installed on a high impact conveyor with now supporting idler frames on either side. The closest impact frame is spaced almost 1m away from the impact beds on either side and what I understand about the DRX3000 is that it can only handle belt speeds up to 3m/s... please correct me if I'm wrong. It is never good to have such a good and well-known product failing under normal operation.

I hope you all understand where I heading with this, because it is highly imperative that all companies with such huge outputs understand and know what they need in order to make a conveyor/fixed plant run without all these nuisance trips and/or stoppages. Misunderstanding of bulk materials and products used in different application can have huge impacts on any company's aim to deliver.

Unfortunately I am not working for this company anymore, but I know that it is of high importance for OEM's to know what is happening in the mining industry and mainly to fix what is wrong.

Being in maintenance for so long allowed me to learn and understand how important it is to have a plant which is good to look at, without even having to worry about who is standing behind me. I take pride in my job and always strive to deliver the best and if not, continuously improve and find a better solution to any problem no matter how big or small and I also believe that [B]a clean plant is a safe plant.'

The reason why I mentioned the 3- and 5-roll troughing configuration is because we were experiencing endless ore spillages and tail end belt misalignment problems, which had a huge impact on the plant's performance. Please understand why I mentioning this, because I have a passion for mining maintenance and I would really want this company to achieve its set target and reach outputs beyond what is expected.

Personally I believe that a 5-roll configuration with up to 60degree troughing angle can deliver/handle higher loading rates, depending on the troughing angle than the 3-roll 45degree troughing idler configuration. It is more expensive, but more effective.

I am saying this because I have played around with some 2D designs by comparing the two configurations where the 5-roll trough shows a +18% increase in volume, which is huge and can even double the output on a 1200mm belt with 3-roll 45degeree troughing angle configuration.

I am happy to mention that I have proof of my concept which is currently out-lasting the DRX3000 on two different conveyor and would gladly send proof to anyone interested in drawings and pictures.

This is a huge achievement for me to have had the opportunity to finally implement a simple and most effective system of retractable inline impact idler frames, which is safe and easy to maintain. The best news about it is that it has never been touched since installation in May of this year and minimum to zero downtime recorded.

The picture attached shows how the conveyor tail end has improved from its previous setup.

Improvements and advantages:

- minimum to zero spillages

- maintenance friendly

- safe to maintain

- minimum to zero downtime

- zero idler failure since May 2014

- no frames failed since May 2014 - frames guaranteed to last no less then 6-10yrs if inspected and idlers changed when required

- the list is endless

For more information, drawings and ideas please don't hesitate to contact me.

Best regards

Ashwell Stallenberg

ashwell.craig@gmail.com

ashwells@amecs.co.za

Cell: +27731494411 ■

Originally Posted by Ashwell

Thank you all for responding. Please allow me the opportunity to explain myself to you all, because it is a privilege for me to be in contact with such high profile individuals.

I am excited and willing to share ideas and always willing to find the best solution to endless bulk material handling problems, because I know that no design is perfect and even the best concepts/products fail under normal circumstances.

I have recently experienced major disappointment in a well know product (DRX3000 impact bed), which was installed incorrectly and even after trying to convince a group of engineers who were in charge of that specific project, it has failed numerous times since installed in May of this year. Just to explain what has happened and why the installed DRX3000 has failed, was for the simple reason that it was installed on a high impact conveyor with now supporting idler frames on either side. The closest impact frame is spaced almost 1m away from the impact beds on either side and what I understand about the DRX3000 is that it can only handle belt speeds up to 3m/s... please correct me if I'm wrong. It is never good to have such a good and well-known product failing under normal operation.

I hope you all understand where I heading with this, because it is highly imperative that all companies with such huge outputs understand and know what they need in order to make a conveyor/fixed plant run without all these nuisance trips and/or stoppages. Misunderstanding of bulk materials and products used in different application can have huge impacts on any company's aim to deliver.

Unfortunately I am not working for this company anymore, but I know that it is of high importance for OEM's to know what is happening in the mining industry and mainly to fix what is wrong.

Being in maintenance for so long allowed me to learn and understand how important it is to have a plant which is good to look at, without even having to worry about who is standing behind me. I take pride in my job and always strive to deliver the best and if not, continuously improve and find a better solution to any problem no matter how big or small and I also believe that [B]a clean plant is a safe plant.'

The reason why I mentioned the 3- and 5-roll troughing configuration is because we were experiencing endless ore spillages and tail end belt misalignment problems, which had a huge impact on the plant's performance. Please understand why I mentioning this, because I have a passion for mining maintenance and I would really want this company to achieve its set target and reach outputs beyond what is expected.

Personally I believe that a 5-roll configuration with up to 60degree troughing angle can deliver/handle higher loading rates, depending on the troughing angle than the 3-roll 45degree troughing idler configuration. It is more expensive, but more effective.

I am saying this because I have played around with some 2D designs by comparing the two configurations where the 5-roll trough shows a +18% increase in volume, which is huge and can even double the output on a 1200mm belt with 3-roll 45degeree troughing angle configuration.

I am happy to mention that I have proof of my concept which is currently out-lasting the DRX3000 on two different conveyor and would gladly send proof to anyone interested in drawings and pictures.

This is a huge achievement for me to have had the opportunity to finally implement a simple and most effective system of retractable inline impact idler frames, which is safe and easy to maintain. The best news about it is that it has never been touched since installation in May of this year and minimum to zero downtime recorded.

The picture attached shows how the conveyor tail end has improved from its previous setup.

Improvements and advantages:

- minimum to zero spillages

- maintenance friendly

- safe to maintain

- minimum to zero downtime

- zero idler failure since May 2014

- no frames failed since May 2014 - frames guaranteed to last no less then 6-10yrs if inspected and idlers changed when required

- the list is endless

For more information, drawings and ideas please don't hesitate to contact me.

Best regards

Ashwell Stallenberg

ashwell.craig@gmail.com

ashwells@amecs.co.za

Cell: +27731494411

----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Dear Ashwell,

Your image does not conveyor uniqueness or special features not found in many typical impact idler stations. Could you either, in words or images, further our understanding of special claims noted above? Without which, you effort to claim special features will not be heard. ■

Originally Posted by nordell

----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Dear Ashwell,

Your image does not conveyor uniqueness or special features not found in many typical impact idler stations. Could you either, in words or images, further our understanding of special claims noted above? Without which, you effort to claim special features will not be heard.

Dear Mr Nordell

I will gladly release my drawings/designs as soon as I get my concept patented.

With much respect, you need to understand that I am only a single person who have struggled to prove my simple system to a much greater industry, but with proven success which is in its own a huge achievement. I know that I will have many challenges in my path, but with my passion and drive I know where I am heading and will make sure my effective and efficient frame will hit the market and be one up there with the best.

If your interested, I would love to and gladly send you one of my designs via e-mail and explain everything to you in detail?

Best regards

Ashwell Stallenberg

ashwell.craig@gmail.com

ashwells@amecs.co.za

Cell: +27731494411 ■

Originally Posted by nordell

----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Dear Ashwell,

Your image does not conveyor uniqueness or special features not found in many typical impact idler stations. Could you either, in words or images, further our understanding of special claims noted above? Without which, you effort to claim special features will not be heard.

Hi Larry,

I have seen these 60 degree trough sets in a few locations now and comment;

> There is no allowance for a decent transition for the belt into and out of the loading point leading to all sorts of issues with the belt

> It concentrates the loading very centrally which has led to a very narrow wear profile on the belt which in turn means you do not get the full value out of the cover thickness of the belt especially on shorter belts where most of the wear occurs at the load point

> If the transfer chute design is poor it makes it far more likely that the belt will be damaged as was the case in WA last year where a they lost 3KM of belt just 6 weeks after commissioning the system

I am frankly not a fan and believe that the benefits are illusory. There are far better ways to achieve the outcomes desired without going to 60 degree trough sets at the load point

Cheers

Colin Benjamin

Gulf Conveyor Systems Pty Ltd

www.conveyorsystemstechnology.com ■

Originally Posted by Colin Benjamin

Hi Larry,

I have seen these 60 degree trough sets in a few locations now and comment;

> There is no allowance for a decent transition for the belt into and out of the loading point leading to all sorts of issues with the belt

> It concentrates the loading very centrally which has led to a very narrow wear profile on the belt which in turn means you do not get the full value out of the cover thickness of the belt especially on shorter belts where most of the wear occurs at the load point

> If the transfer chute design is poor it makes it far more likely that the belt will be damaged as was the case in WA last year where a they lost 3KM of belt just 6 weeks after commissioning the system

I am frankly not a fan and believe that the benefits are illusory. There are far better ways to achieve the outcomes desired without going to 60 degree trough sets at the load point

Cheers

Colin Benjamin

Gulf Conveyor Systems Pty Ltd

www.conveyorsystemstechnology.com

Good day all,

I have prove that my 45degree retractable impact frames work and has not failed yet since installation, which have already outlasted the DRX3000 Impact Bed.

It is not only about what you implement/install, but how you do it. I know it is difficult for anyone to understand and want to use my simple and cheap system, but I have experienced so many set backs where companies spend too much and only realise after years that they should have listened and gone for the simple but yet most effective and efficient system in the industry.

I always listen and learn from so may well known Engineers/Engineering companies, but with my experience in the industry, I do know what I am talking about and especially know what have achieved... Increased plant utilization and increased volumes.

Best Regards

Ashwell

ashwells@amecs.co.za ■