Powder direction problems

Posted in: , on 25. Dec. 2006 - 00:30

I have problems with the direction of product in our Pillet Drier. It has two decks in it .ie.Powder goes in and fines drop to the lower deck.Large solids are put thru a mincer at on end then loaded on to the lower deck. Top Deck is inclined to the mincer, bottom deck inclined away from the mincer. We can get the product to flow either way quite well, but cannont get it to flow both ways well. The plant is a 4 bearing set up. Eccentric shaft speed is 531.3 rpm on both shafts. Does anyone have an idea how to tackle this one?

Mincer/Screen=Problems

Erstellt am 25. Dec. 2006 - 04:22

Please tell us what you are screening and macerating.

If I understand your description of your process the mincer is the problem. and the feed through the mincer output is to slow.

It would be helpfull if your screen and mincer was pictured but I think your mincer is flooded from grinding and unable to clear the product; it would be helpfull if you could tell us what the product is: It leads me to belive it is a stoned food product as the sugars in a screened macerated product would behave like this.

the answer may lay in using a bigger mincer with a larger discharge outlet to feed the second screen.

If the screens are at opposite inclines and are operating at the same speed with the same drive unit trying to drive against each other. I would like to know what kind of sceen this as your description of its operation seems wrong.

Re: Powder Direction Problems

Erstellt am 25. Dec. 2006 - 05:03

Thanks for your reply. I am new to vibrating screens and terminology used here so I will try to explain better.

We make milk powder. The unit vibrating up and down has two tiers to it. As product is put in it moves down an incline (appx 1:100) for about 9 meters. The screen of this incline is not mesh, it is stainless plate with fine holes in it. Any product larger than these holes will travel the full length, and then be minced (crushed) and then go along the 2nd level. Inclined the same but in the opposite direction.

The unit is supported by 4 sets of 2 springs. Diagonally opposite from each other are the vibrating units.

I have done some measurement (Crude but have value) with a static pen.

To give you a picture. The product goes in top right travels down the incline to the left, minced then travels left to right down bottom incline and out.

The product is accumulating just after the mincer. When I put a pen on the top tier it moves the correct way. When I put it on the bottom, it moves up the inlcine (ie the wrong way)

Results from the pen test show the unit is not going directly up and down, it has a slight angle to the left (appx 8 degrees) also the amplitude of the stroke on the left is 8mm on the right it is 9mm.

My next move was to increase the mass on the frame on the right hand side to see if this would decrease the stroke amplitude, and move the vibration direction closer to vertical.

Thank you for you time on this

Milk Powder Screener

Erstellt am 25. Dec. 2006 - 02:36

Can you tell me who made your screener?

Can I safely assume it is 316 stainless steel due to its screening a food product?

I think my friend George Baker would agree that it-the screen is out of balance can you obtain stroke checking cards from the screen manufacturer?

Please also check for excess build up of milk powder dust around the screener to check for free movement.

The screener has to be clear of the sides and front and back of the frame allow free movent to work properly.

The other item to check for is orbit of the shaker arm.

Take a paint pen and paint a dot on the exciters on both sides of the screen and when it is operating see if the orbit of the paint dots is perfect-if not you have problems:

It might be that milk powder is binding up against that corner of the screen that is not moving well or the worst may be a bad bearing, bearins or bad spring or springs. A weak spring will allow more movement as well on one side or corner.

If the screener has mounting rubbers on the shaker arms be sure to clean them to allow for free movment of the mounting rubber-beacuse if they are not free to move they will transmit thier energy rather than absorb it where it is.

If you dont mind could you tell me the screen manufacturers name?

Re: Powder Direction Problems

Erstellt am 25. Dec. 2006 - 05:54

Manufacturer is Pillet. The screen is appx 9.0 meters x 1.8 meters. It is a casein powder dryer. This season there is a slight variance in the product spec, but I dont see this to be the issue. It has been in operation for appx 25 years. About 3 months ago the vibration unit on the right hand side had its bearings changed.

I would have thought that with 2 vibrating units, rotating in opposite directions and having 2 screens that incline evenly in opposite directions that the ideal stroke would be straight up and down.

Screener

Erstellt am 25. Dec. 2006 - 06:55

I would almost bet the other bearings are near their maximium B10 life.

Try painting a dot on the rotating parts as I described to check orbits and I think you will see a problem.

Re: Powder Direction Problems

Erstellt am 25. Dec. 2006 - 07:00

Izaharis. Thank you for your replies. I will go and do as you suggest, I really am out of my pay scale here and any info is always greatly appreciated.

Re: Screener

Erstellt am 25. Dec. 2006 - 09:50

Originally posted by lzaharis

I would almost bet the other bearings are near their maximium B10 life.

Try painting a dot on the rotating parts as I described to check orbits and I think you will see a problem.

I have done a bit more to ascertain the orbits. Results as follows.



Disregard the images with a cross thru.

This is the left hand side. The orbit on the left is when only that vibrator is going. The two thin orbits are when both units are operating.



This is the right hand side

Again disregard the crosses.

Squiggle on the left is when only the right hand unit is operating and the three thin orbits are when both units are operating.

Both angles are 14 degrees

Comments?

Re: Re: Screener

Erstellt am 25. Dec. 2006 - 10:45

Originally posted by Tone1



I have done a bit more to ascertain the orbits. Results as follows.



Disregard the images with a cross thru.

This is the left hand side. The orbit on the left is when only that vibrator is going. The two thin orbits are when both units are operating.



This is the right hand side

Again disregard the crosses.

Squiggle on the left is when only the right hand unit is operating and the three thin orbits are when both units are operating.

Both angles are 14 degrees

Comments?



1. Was the screener loaded and screening when the left and right side were examined?

2. Check the screener for plumb-use nylon line across the screener frame and the screen deck to examine whether it is parallell from side to side/no twisting from left to right -right to left.

Do you know what a line level is? it is a small bubble level that

will attach to the nylon twine to tell you if it is plumb from left to right and right to left acreoos the top and bottom of the screener.

I would also measure the diagonal distance from one corner to

the opposite corner of the screener frame to make sure the escreener frame is not twisted/racked.

Use the same twine to measure the distance from the opposite corners-if it is even a little off the screen frame may be bad.

I will also recommend you examine the length of the springs as one or more of them may have lost their compressive strength which would throw off the feed where the rest of the springs will try to do the work as the bad one is just limping because of metal fatigue.

If everything is true/components are square then I would reduce the product volume over the screener as you mentioned the product was a bit different this year -I am assuming you are screening whole milk powder.

If one or more beariing housings is hot after running the screener you definetely have bearing problems--

As a rule for good maintenance all the bearings should be changed at one time.

I also am curious if the screener side plates have been examined for cracks as they/the side plates are a haven for sympathetic vibrations and cracking from stress- have any of the major components ever been replaced such as driven shafts?

I am also curious as to whether the eccentric shafts are balanced with weight tape etc. I will research pillet driers further.

leon Z

Re: Powder Direction Problems

Erstellt am 26. Dec. 2006 - 12:54

we have found that one motor is rated 20rpm slower than the other. We have just replaced with I dentically rated motor, but get a 15 rpm difference. Before, once when the machine had started we could turn off a motor and the unit would still vibrate. Now, after the motor change we can only turn off one motor and it will carry on, if we turn the replaced motor off, it will stop turning. Also there is a out of balance thing going on. Every 30 secs it will phase together then slowly go out of phase ie left is up, right is down then go to left up right up etc. At least before there was a uniformity to the motion. We have the motors rotating opposite ways, the eccentrics will go from the bottom to the outside to the top to the inside.

Is this correct. I need to find a web site that has the basics .

Screener

Erstellt am 26. Dec. 2006 - 03:56

It sounded like something was not right. The motors should be identical with the phase/wiring pairs/voltage/amperage/RPM etc. and direction of rotation as they are only fighting against each other.

As they will do nothing but fight with each other since they are not running at the same RPM and their collective energies are essentially not working in together.

Is it posssible you have one fifty cycle motor and a sixty cycle motor doing the same job? it would explain a lot. If the motors are the same the rotation speed should be the same unless and only unless:

1. the cycle rating of each motor is different.

(a) the motors do not have the same number of windings frm a poor rebuild and possibly bad bearings as well.

2. the eccentrics are not in identical in location on the motor shafts used to power the screener. Please remember that the energy created by the motors turning the weights to throw the screens in orbit are required to do this in tandem at all times otherwise the screen will not work simply because the direction of throw is not linear.

Can I safely assume the throw is intentially up hill on the lower screen due to its opposite angle to improve the cutting of the milk powder?

the weights if any should both be at the six o' clock position at start up and after shut down due to slowing and eventually stop with the weight being heavy and resting at the six oclock position simply from the weight itself or at another position identical to both motors.

Their are many food manufacturing associations that have websites relating to powder products such as powdered milk/creamers/cereals/milk chocolate powders/cocoa etc.

Please check the Vibrating screen maufacturers association web site: they are very informative and provide huge amounts of information on screeens and screening.

before I forget the only place that should have any weight on it is the eccentric attached to the motor and no where else as this will do huge amount of damage-

essentially it would add more weight to a swing and it will want to travel farther and we do not want that at all.

leon Z

<www.vsma.org>

hope this helps.

Re: Powder Direction Problems

Erstellt am 26. Dec. 2006 - 04:04

Its been a big day here, changing motors and all. But we have something to show for it. I took off the eccentric pulley and belts so I could scope the actual unloaded rpm of the motors. They were identical. I put the belt and pulley back on. Electrician who had been helping re-tensioned the belts on one side. He did them WAY too tight. I loosened off, and hey presto we have synchronisation!! Next is to tackle the orbit orientation. My feeling is that the pulleys havent been changed since noah built the Ark.

On monday, tomorrow, I will replace all pulleys and belts so I know all driving and driven diameters are as close to spec as possible.

Big thanks to you Leon for your help today. I will post again tomorrow as to my results.

Tone

Screen Problems

Erstellt am 26. Dec. 2006 - 04:25

Tone1

I knew it would be easy to find- the rule of thumb for v-belt tension is no more than 1/4 to 3/8" distance when the v belt is pressed with a finger or thumb for proper tension - you can also purchase v belt tension gauges from a motor car repair shops tool seller such as as from Snap On etc.

Before I forget it:

unless you are using Ringfedder locking rings or taper locks to secure pulleys etc:

use plenty of blue lock tite to secure the set screws and be sure to use new keys or replacement key stock to secure the pulleys.

If it has not been done already drill a small hole in the keystock where the set screw is going to be located and this will help hold the set screw point in place.

Be sure to use new set screws for the repair or new taper locks to replace the old ones if that is used as a way to secure the pullies etc.

Much success my freind.

leon

Untitled

Erstellt am 29. Dec. 2006 - 08:08

Replaced belts and pulleys alround. Did a stroke card and came up with a near vertcal line! Awesome result. I had mentioneed before the suspect bearing in one of the units, unfortunately plant recomissioned in my absence, so did not get a result there.

Big thanks to you Leon for holding my hand thru this one.

Now how to do VA on the vibrating units.

Shake Rattle And Roll The Milk Powder

Erstellt am 29. Dec. 2006 - 03:31

Originally posted by Tone1

Replaced belts and pulleys alround. Did a stroke card and came up with a near vertcal line! Awesome result. I had mentioneed before the suspect bearing in one of the units, unfortunately plant recomissioned in my absence, so did not get a result there.

Big thanks to you Leon for holding my hand thru this one.

Now how to do VA on the vibrating units.

Tone1 what type of vibratory system? are they the linear type with solenoid such as the vibrators used in busy bee screeners-I am unsure if they are even made any more.

Or are your vibrators used in a bulk storage vessel(the inverted cone of a bin) for the milk powder prior to packaging?

Re: Powder Direction Problems

Erstellt am 29. Dec. 2006 - 05:00

The units are eccentric weighted shafts that are the width of the screen/conveyor ( 90 degrees to the path of travel) They have a pulley on one end, driven by a motor and pulley, 3x v-belt drive. Two units, one CW the other is CCW. It may be possible to measure on the three or nine o'clock position as this movement would be at right angles to the instrument but I m not a VA tech so cant be sure.

Just tonight they have put product back through it and every things seems to be ticking along ok, But I cant get that bearing out of my mind. I hate the 90% jobs.

Screene For Milk Powder

Erstellt am 29. Dec. 2006 - 10:20

Tone1,

Where is the bearing exactly-inboard our outboard side of the screener?, as in is it exposed while running with out endangering you?

email me at lzaharis@lightlink.com and if the bearing is exposed with in reach I can tell you about a tried but true method that I know-providing the bearing housing is stationary.

Re: Powder Direction Problems

Erstellt am 30. Dec. 2006 - 08:29

Here are some photos of our set up