Re: Double Action Belt Cleaner
Please sell lots of these so I can replace all the worn out belts!
REDDOG ■
Rotating Blade Belt Cleaner
If properly designed and constructed, the whirling blade belt cleaners actually cause less wear then conventional scraper type belt cleaners. Latter tend to dig into the belt with substantial pressure whereas the former hardly touch the belt, only the sticking material when properly adjusted. The adjustment method and its carrying out is the key. Also important is the relative speed differential between the belt and the whirling blade.
Rema TipTop of Germany offered a whirling rubber brush design with 5 mm(?) fingers, which would lengthen due to their centrifugal forces to lightly brush the belt. I have never tried this device. ■
Re: Double Action Belt Cleaner
That's a HUGE if!
I don't mean to offend but it is rare to have desktop conditions in the real world.
The hedgehog type brushes wear very quickly and soon become ornamental.
End users typically do not invest much time in tweaking belt cleaners. If it doesn't work they remove it and call the competition. I would really like to witness this whirling belt cleaner in action. Perhaps some jpegs/mpegs online.
Regards,
REDDOG ■
Re: Double Action Belt Cleaner
Mr. Plaut:
I agree with the REMA IP-TOP brush concept. Many build such brushes. The brush has a number of the significant advantages:
1. It allows for differential wear across the cleaner face that a blade can not. Many a belt has abrasive materrial that may, according the loading station, differentially apply the abrasive material across the belt that will cause a higher rate of wear on the cleaner device in the more abrasive zone. A blade cannot accomodate differing abrasive zones. It will have different surface speeds which exacerabate local wear on the blade. The brush does not have this problem because it is significantly less sensitive to radial wear in that it can deflect or bend strand by strand.
2. The brush is inheritly self cleaning. Centrifugal force and brush strand deflection causes contaminants to fly off the brush tip surface using velocity.
3. Some brushes use a motor powered feature to give the brush tip an aid in kinetic energy cleaning = M * V *V /2. The brush tip high speed needs a smaller contact pressure and less brush strand defection. The manufacturers still have not got it right.
Having said the above, the brush can still have an unacceptable high rate of wear and need continuous maintenance adjustment to stay effective.
Maybe new materials will solve this weakness. Some forum member may step up and tell us so.
I would have to see the evidence, like a reasonable list of installation references, to buy nto the idea a rotating blade can best a brush or be effective for any acceptable period of time. So let us see the reference list of products, time in service, reputable clients.....
Lawrence Nordell
Conveyor Dynamics, Inc. ■
Rotary Brush Belt Cleaners
Frankly, I have never seen one in action. I just instinctly like the concept of 'flicking" the product rather than scraping it. One of our custiomers asked us to ship our systems without belt cleaners and installed what he called "brush type" cleaners to his own satisfaction. He is, however, very secretive and won't let us look!
I share reddog's negative feelings about most users' maintenance practices, but the competition probably will do even worse It won't solve the users' problems, until they undergo a change of attitude.
The brush wear problem can be improved by using polyurethane in place of rubber, worth the extra expense. ■
Double Action Belt Cleaner
how it is working with dust environement? I have already put brushes and it plugs and put fire. would i have the same problems with your system? ■
Rotary Belt Cleaners
At EleVeyor we do not make or sell any belt cleaners except for our own products.
Rema TipTop have their North American Headquarterts at Northvale, NY.
Their e-mail address is rematiptop@rematiptop.com
While they seem to handle primarily automotive products, they may be able to direct you to their conveyor service division, who might help you with their rubber brush type belt cleaners.
Good Luck! ■
Suggestions
Hello
Two thoughts -
1. If wear is a problem then replace the steel tips with a more wear resistant, but unfortunately more expensive material - eg. cemented tungsten carbide.
2. Alternatively there are at least 2 simple ways of making the device self adjusting - ie. automatic wear compensation.
Regards
Mark Kilfoil
Mechanical Engineering
Technikon Witwatersrand
Phone + 27 11 406 2300
Fax + 27 11 406 2770
E-mail : mkilfoil@mail.twr.ac.za ■
Double Action Belt Cleaner
In 1974-1975 in the UK the profound tests were carried
out for 14 different types of belt cleaners.
The high speed rubber finger brush was
only recommended device.
We tried the device but people on site
dismounted it very soon - the brush was
blocked up and came out of balance.
Our device has relatively low speed and
selfcleaning effect.
The efficiency of the cleaning is achieved by
the non-stop impacts and the stratching
of a belt. We use the "spring effect" of the
bended rubber blades.
Michael Rivkin ■
Re: New Belt Cleaner With Steel-Tipped Rubber Blades
Originally posted by eleveyor
I would be interested to receive details about this development.
we manufacture conveyors for handling dewatered wastewater sludge which is usually quite sticky. Has there been any experience with such applications?
wplaut@eleveyor.com
Have you considered using a rotating disc plow for this application? The principle is similar to a tilling disc used by farmers.
Mounted to the underside of the conveyor, the sticky materials are dislodged by a series of discs in a diagonal alignment which are scraping as they rotate. Take care to balance induced side travel forces. ■
Re: Double Action Belt Cleaner
A roll with an arrangement of helical grooves or blades works in the same principal as a mill cutter on a solid material and it is not difficult or expensive to design them "self adjustable".
A simple way is to use pneumatic pressure to regulate the blade contact with the belt using the same design principles as a core chuck.
The main difficulties with these devices is that they needs to be customized to the specific operation and require the belt to be in tension in the cleaning area.
With respect to maintenance, all equipment requires maintenance and we could speak in terms of reliability or maintainability in relation to what benefits the system adds to the process.
I can't judge the efficiency of the system proposed here but I have seen rotary belt cleaning systems that work well for those specific operations and have decent reliability.
Antonio Reis
www.vitrom.com ■
Re: Double Action Belt Cleaner
May I have details of this cleaner ?? seems fantastic. My company is doing retrofit of two crane unloader sistems and also the belt conveyor at PANUL port in Chile - South America - I woul like to lern about the experienced people joint to the portal.
regards.
marcelo.
malons@entelchile.net
Originally posted by Dr M.Rivkin
A new double action device was developed to
improve the belt cleaning operation.
The device is installed under a head drum and
consists of an axle and six rectangular rubber
plates. The axle is supported by two
bearings and is rotated by a chain drive
connected the head drum shaft and the axle.
The rubber plates are mounted on the axle
and have a long steel tips on their free side.
The distance between the conveyor belt and
the axle should be smaller than the width of
the rubber plate.
The rotation of the shaft causes the rotation
of the axle in the opposite direction. Each
plate,firstly, impacts the conveyor belt
and, secondly, scretches the belt some time,
and the next plate is coming , and so on.
The device is a very simple, reliable and....
..good cleaning !
■
New Belt Cleaner With Steel-Tipped Rubber Blades
I would be interested to receive details about this development.
we manufacture conveyors for handling dewatered wastewater sludge which is usually quite sticky. Has there been any experience with such applications?
wplaut@eleveyor.com ■
Double Action Belt Cleaner
One of the advantages of the cleaner is its
selfcleaning.
The rubber blades ( after cleaning operation )
are unbended abruptly and , thus, clean
their smooth surfaces from a sticky material. ■
Doule Way Belt Cleaning Facility
We would like to get details of this facility, can you please send some details.
Thanks
Sushanta ■
Double Action Belt Cleaner
The device is very simple one and was
described in detailes in two my threads.
You can order a set of shop dwgs or
the cleaner ready to use.
If you decide to order, send your belt width,
location of the head drum and chute. ■
Re: Double Action Belt Cleaner
Mr. Rivkin:
Please post your ingeneous device on the form site here for all to view. Many rotating blade and brush cleaners have been tried. None do a good job or they would take over the industry.
We eagerly await your posting.
Lawrence Nordell ■
Double Action Belt Cleaner
Tne principle of the device differs from known
cleaners:
the device is installed between head and bend drums
and rotated by a head drum shaft
via a chain. 6 to9 rubber steel-tipped blades are mounted
on the axle. the width of the blades equals to the
width of the belt.
The axle is installed in such way that the blades are
bended to pass the belt.
So, rotation of the head drum causes rotation of the
cleaner in the opposite direction and each blade
firstly impacts and, secondly,screthes the belt,
throwing the material in the low section of the head
drum chute (selfcleaning).
I hope that now operation of the cleaner is clear. ■
Re: Double Action Belt Cleaner
Dear Dr. Rivkin,
As Mr. Nordell has suggested, the use of rotary rubber blade and rubber brush cleaners have not proven to be successful in the industry. Although they tend to be very efficient initially, as the rubber wears contact with the belt is lost. Unless the operator has an efficient maintenance team the units do not get adjusted and carryover results.
Do the blade arms in your unit have sufficient length to provide for tip wear without having to replace blades monthly or weekly, or does the assembly come with an adjustment which permits operators to move the unit closer to the discharge pulley as blade wear occurs? If the latter, do you handle changes in the chain tension with a dancer sprocket?
Regards, ■
Double Action Belt Cleaner
Dear Mr Miller,
You are right about the tip wear problem,
but if the tip plates are made from a high
wear resistance steel, you can sleep
quietly during 1-2 years.
Regards,
Michael Rivkin ■
Re: Double Action Belt Cleaner
I have seen a very similar belt cleaner in action with rubber tips and the rema tip top unit. What happens when or should the drive chain break and it goes undetected for some time ? Other problem is when used on fine dry powders is the unit acts as a fan and tends to spread the product all over the place .
Regards,
Colin. ■
To Colin Masurik's Remarks..
I feel as though I were a salesman for the discussed devices:
I am not!
Anyhow,
1) I would drive such a rotary cleaner always by means of a directly coupled variable speed gearmotor.
2) Dusty product have less tendency to stick to the belt, hence a simpler cleaner would suffice. ■
Re: Double Action Belt Cleaner
I am considering ordering a set of shop drawings for a 24" belt in a totally enclosed conveyor. Please advise correct procedure, who to contact, price, etc.
W.Plaut
1-301-652-2999 (Tel)
1-301-652-9655 (Fax)
wplaut@eleveyor.com (email)
www.eleveyor.com (web) ■
Double Action Belt Cleaner
I'd like to thank Mr Plaut for help, I agree with him.
The drive chain makes the device cheaper.A simple
zero-speed switch can be used for the detection, but it could
never happen: the blades are too flexible to
create a considerable resistance.
Michael Rivkin ■
Re: Double Action Belt Cleaner
All the usual problems with belt cleaning are highlighted with every new mechanical cleaning attempt. Here; by smacking the belt periodically there will be a high frequency pulse introduced along the return strand and this will have to be considered when designing and locating a vertical take up station.
Generally speaking the multi-blade scrapers afford better wear adjustment/compensation techniques. In this machine it appears that the full width steel edge strip might flex in sympathy with the belt cross section profile but that is not specifically stated. In any event the contact pressure will be unfavourably distributed regardless of the onset of wear. I have never fancied beating the daylights out of a belt to clean it. If the belt is difficult to clean mechanically then washing should be considered. More material would be recovered and belt life would be prolonged.
It is a sad fact of conveyor life that if you scrape material off a belt then wear points are added to the belt or scraper. Something has to give. It is not a valid engineering statement to say that because the blades are hard enough then the plant engineer can sleep well. If the blades are not wearing then the belt is. On some plants the main spine belt is the single most expensive item on the site. ■
John Gateleyjohngateley@hotmail.comwww.the-credible-bulk.com
Re: Double Action Belt Cleaner
John,
I agree that some component in the system has to wear and to some extent be the expendable part of the system. From an economical stand, one should select those as to optimize the cost of ownership.
I don't understand the system proposed in this thread but I don't think that the blades smack the belt. Again I may be wrong...
With respect to belt washers, in my opinion, they are very effective but with a high cost to operate and maintain.
Often pressure alone is not enough to remove the material from the belt, the belt needs to be washed from both sides to provent caking on the drive side and in most cases you need to remove the excess water. If not you have the same mess as with the mechanical cleaner but in this instance a wet mess.
To support the operation you need a pumping system and a water/sludge recovery system. Than you have to deal with the sludge.
Replacing the belt every five years is not good practice but replacing 10 blades per month at a cost of $1K may not be such a bad idea.
Antonio Reis
www.vitrom.com ■
New Belt Cleaner With Steel-Tipped Rubber Blades
I would be interested to receive details about this development.
we manufacture conveyors for handling dewatered wastewater sludge which is usually quite sticky. Has there been any experience with such applications? ■
Re: Double Action Belt Cleaner
Dr. Rivkin:
It is late and the mind wonders a pondering.
I smell something fishy. Is it a big fish?
All the dialog on this (sic) fish (cleaner) yet we can't see a posting on Moby Dick. Give us all a view of your view Dr. Rivkin.
Post it, Dr. Rivkin, to satiate the appetite of the fishermen. We ask what it is and what is it. Why cant we see it? Does it really exist?
I say it doesn't exit till it exists. Make it exit Dr. Rivkin.
Scrapers and rotators, wear and tear, with flailing blades - its enough to make you vibrate.
It is a secret weapon only to be exposed to those who don't.
Make me eat the fish! ■
Double Action Belt Cleaner
Mr Nordell,
Everyone can get a set of shop dwgs of the cleaner
for any application from:
http://www.ring-eng.com
Michael Rivkin ■
Requesed Belt Cleaner Drawings - No Correspondence
Dear Michael,
I requested the drawings, per your instructions, on about the 10-11 of January. Now a month has pasted and no correspondence from your company. What is the problem? The fish is still ????
LK Nordell ■
Double Action Belt Cleaner
Dear Lawrence,
Sorry for delay replying your request.
The Ring Co. is not my company, so I've asked
them ... and the answer was:
no request from Mr L.Nordell !
To be sure, send them e-mail:
RINGALIL @ NETVISION.NET.IL
and a copy to me:
RIVKIN @ DSW.CO.IL
and,please, don't try to catch a fish in
the Dead Sea - only a herring !
Regards
M.Rivkin ■
Double Action Belt Cleaner
A new double action device was developed to
improve the belt cleaning operation.
The device is installed under a head drum and
consists of an axle and six rectangular rubber
plates. The axle is supported by two
bearings and is rotated by a chain drive
connected the head drum shaft and the axle.
The rubber plates are mounted on the axle
and have a long steel tips on their free side.
The distance between the conveyor belt and
the axle should be smaller than the width of
the rubber plate.
The rotation of the shaft causes the rotation
of the axle in the opposite direction. Each
plate,firstly, impacts the conveyor belt
and, secondly, scretches the belt some time,
and the next plate is coming , and so on.
The device is a very simple, reliable and....
..good cleaning ! ■