Relative Cost of different reclaim Methods

Ross Beneke
(not verified)
Posted in: , on 16. Dec. 2006 - 02:29

Hi everyone,

I am working on a project that will exort bauxite as well as use it in a alumina refinery. We are going to use barrel/drum reclaimers for the stockpiles that feed the plant to maximize blending. These would probable be about 1200tph

For the export stockpiles we could use the same drum reclaimers, but we do not need the blending. Port outloading will be about 3000tph, so the machine will need to be a bit different anyway. Can anyone tell me the relative cost of different types of reclaimers for a feed of 3000tph. I guess the obvious choices would be Bridge bucketwheel Reclaimer, drum reclaimer or boom bucketwheel reclaimer.

Any other suggestions would be welcome.

Cheers

Ross

Re: Relative Cost Of Different Reclaim Methods

Posted on 17. Dec. 2006 - 02:42

Before you can reclaim you have to stack. Before you can stack you need to know the ground conditions. If the ground allows it you can run the tracks down 1 side. Otherwise you must span the pile to throw some weight over to the far side. Then you must provide passage & maintenance clearances. Service cranes must not block the machines on adjacent tracks, in emergencies.

You mention a plurality of drum reclaimers so with 2 you will already have 2400tph for the port. Considering spares holding, machine standby capacity & trackwork/land costs there is no option but to stick with drum reclaimers.

I thought they were extinct. Any breakdown of a bridgeing device blocks the trackwork locally which can be a bit of a bind if the gadget is halfway down the pile(s).

John Gateley johngateley@hotmail.com www.the-credible-bulk.com

Stock Pile Etc.

Posted on 17. Dec. 2006 - 02:47

John is correct in regard to everything he has told you.

Another option is the use of a belt reclaimer such as is made by Long Airdox or WR Stamler and combining that a portable conveyor may be even less costly with a tracked excavator-(crawler mounted) in the 1200 ton per hour or more class to reclaim the materials.

Another good option which allows for flexibility is a smaller tracked bucket wheel reclaimer used in combination with the belt feeder and moveable conveyor belt-I believe RAHCO stll makes these portable/moveable belts.

Mathias Elter - TMSA , Brazil
(not verified)

Shiploader And Conveyors

Posted on 17. Dec. 2006 - 03:40

Dear Mr. Ross,

our company doesn't have much experience with stacking / blending / reclaiming equipment, but as the prefered supplier of companies like Alunorte (CVRD group) and other bauxite / alumina producers, we would like to be included in your vendor list for the shiploader and the conveyor packages.

For further information, please visit our web site: www.tecnomoageira.com.br or make a direct contact.

Best regards,

Eng. Mathias Elter - mathias@tecnomoageira.com.br

Executive Director

TECNO MOAGEIRA S.A. Equipamentos Agro-Industriais

Phone: +55 (51) 21313318 - Fax: +55 (51) 21313330

Av. Bernardino Silveira Pastoriza, 710 - Porto Alegre - RS - 91160-310 - Brazil

Visit our web site www.tecnomoageira.com.br to know better about our

"Electromechanical Solutions with Superior Perceived Value and Low Environmental Impact for the Preparation and Handling of Solid Bulk Materials"

Re: Relative Cost Of Different Reclaim Methods

Posted on 19. Dec. 2006 - 05:37

As Izaharis & I delve back into history; I well remember a photograph of a small track mounted bucket wheel supplied to the UK NCB by Anderson Strathclyde. It seemed a reasonable solution at the time but since the mention of Stamler I think that machine takes the buscuit. In fact, I like that machine so much I would buy the Company!

John Gateley johngateley@hotmail.com www.the-credible-bulk.com

Ross Beneke
(not verified)

Re: Relative Cost Of Different Reclaim Methods

Posted on 19. Dec. 2006 - 10:44

Thanks guys,

Not exactly what I was looking for. I will have a reclaimer at the refinery (1200tph) and one at the port (3000tph). Not two at the port.

What I was looking for was this sort of formula

Drum reclaimer cost (3000tph) = FACTOR * Bucketwheel reclaimer cost (3000tph)

What is the approximate sizer of FACTOR?

I.e. the relative cost of different types of reclaimers. Is the Drum recliamer twice as expensive as the Luffing slewing bucketwheel.

Also what is the cost difference between a bridge bucketwheel reclaimer and a Drum reclaimer.

My understanding is that we need to use a bridge bucketwheel or drum reclaimer to get the proper blending into the Alumina Plant. But at the port I might be free to use a different type of machine. The choice would be dependant on capital cost versus the cost of different spares.

Sorry if I did not make myself clear in the original posting.

Cheers

Ross

Reclaiming Etc.

Posted on 19. Dec. 2006 - 11:30

OK now we are into the economics of everything has its opportunity cost versus I want that one syndrome:

As an example a large stamler reclaimer with nothing but the gear box,electric motor, body and frame ready to run will cost over $300000 in US funds plus customs fees and parts- spare parts are based on the number of units in service -but if you do not have a gear box, electric motor, flight chains, flights, couplers, in stock for repair. you will have to wait for shipment from either Oldenburg Group or W.R. Stamler. and you will be stuck if youy do not have spares as these machines are custom built just like a reclaimer of any size.

Economics for any system consists of:

Machine cost

site preparation/track rail, grading /pollution control for the product handled

spares even if you do not think you need it you should have it simply because of distances traveled from the builder to you

lubricants: As long as lubricants are equivalent to the API grade required by the builder you will have no problem.

depreciation-this is an immediate expense as the value of the machine decreases even as it is assembled for use simply because you own it!!

cost of set up of the utilities for the reclaimer.

cost of utilities to power the reclaimer-you will need electric power to erect the reclaimer and test it prior to commissioning.

shipping to destination and assembly of the units by the builders assembly crews

As far as the price factor is concerned it all depends on the size of the pocket book simply because these machines are made one at a time and built from the ground up so asking for a price is iessentially asking a supplier what the cost of a unit was that was built previous by them as price is relative term due to the variable cost material used to build it-labor, steel cost,

welding, the cost of purchasing parts they do not make them selves.

Decide on a builder with experience in both methods of reclaiming and ask for firm estimates that will be guaranteed for 30 days or more.

You could be looking at anywhere from $3,000,000.00 plus US funds just to start with a reclaimer design you wish to use simply as these systems are built as turnkey operations.

another valid option is purchasing a used reclaimer and haviing the original builder upgrade it and rebuild it,. no problems, full warrantees, etc.

The rule is the dumber it is the easier it is to fix!!!!!!!!!

But this will not excuse lack of maintenance from not greasing or checking oil samples maintaining oil levels in chain drives, buying good conveyor splices-not cheap ones!~!!! good conveyor belt for the reclaim side of things-6 ply at least.

last but not least is operator training.

John- on a related note Orenstein and Koppel were the builders I was referring to- I remember a small diesel electric unit reclaimng gold slimes in south africa the early stages of the new gold boom in the early 90's.

I think they still make them.

leon z

Re: Relative Cost Of Different Reclaim Methods

Posted on 20. Dec. 2006 - 08:24

Dear Mr. Ross,

we did not find your email address and hope that it will be forwarded to you.

For a drum reclaimer of 40 m span we would estimate a weight of about 500 t and a price of 100 % accordingly.

For a twin type bucket wheel reclaimer, which has nearly as good blending features, we would estimate a weight of about 380 t and a price of 80 % of the the drum reclaimer.

A bucket wheel boom time woud require a boom length of 45 m and counterweigt. So the weight could be about 40% more and accordingly the price of the drum recleimer.

The BW boom type can be reloacted to other stockpiles whcih the bridge type cannot do.

We would like to mention that Sandvik provide all kind of reclaimers and we are sure that we can design the optimum solution for your requirement.

We hope that this infromation is helpful for the time being. If you need more specific information please contact us any time.

Best regards

Helmut Oberrisser

--------------------------------------------------------------------------

VOEST-ALPINE Materials Handling GmbH & Co KG

Vordernberger Strasse 12

A-8700 Leoben

Austria

www.sandvik.com

Helmut OBERRISSER

Commercial Director

Tel: + 43 3842 2077 210

Fax: + 43 3842 2077 201

Mob:+ 43 664 615 6144

E-Mail: helmut.oberrisser@sandvik.com

Re: Relative Cost Of Different Reclaim Methods

Posted on 26. Dec. 2006 - 05:05

Bridge type twin bucket wheel reclaimer may be functionally more suitable as reclaiming speed can be varied by varying speeds of long travel, cross travel and bucketwheels.

But for the purpose of blending, two parallel stockpiles need to be made- one for preparing the blend while the other is being reclaimed. Export grade bauxite can be stocked in a third stockpile. All three piles can be serviced by one or two bridge reclaimers depending on the operational requirements.

Bucket wheel on boom reclaimer can be used if you have constraint of stockpile area (single stockpile). With proper automation blending can be achieved during reclaiming provided the stockpile formation has been planned beforehand. For best blending results, stockpile formation shoud be with a slewable single boom stacker.

Automation for bridge type will be simpler than that of boom type. Bridge type is also more maintenance friendly.

Surplus Stacker-Reclaimer Avail

Posted on 28. Dec. 2006 - 10:17

Greetings to all

Very interesting discussions concerning what type of Reclaimer should be used at the various sites.

If you decide on a boom mounted Bucket Wheel Type, we would be pleased to offer a 2500/1900tph surplus machine. Very good condition, with spare parts.

We are also able to supply surplus, Shiploaders (3) and Ship Unloaders(up to 1500tph BW type 3000hrs use).

Rail Car Dumpers (2), and a Thaw Shed

compliment our extensive range of Surplus

Port Equipment.

Surplus Mining Equipment consists of (3) Bucket Wheel Excavators, a Continuous Surface Mining Machine(overhauled c/w spares), and a rail mounted bi-directional Stacker. A large Spreader is also available.

We are at your service and welcome your questions, anytime.

Sincerely,

Al Goodmundson

Phone: Canada (306)-664-7260

Email norsequip@sasktel.net

Re: Relative Cost Of Different Reclaim Methods

Posted on 29. Dec. 2006 - 01:39

As mentioned earlier; bridge type machines are very maintenance friendly. They just sit there & wait because they can't go anywhere when they pack in!!

Its nice to see that stacking is finally being considered as relevant to the blending process. It was 30 years ago as well.

Less seriously: if you use a boom bucket wheel it will also stack, blend even, which you seem to have overlooked in the costing excercise FACTOR bit. This should somewhat mitigate an earlier proposal to bang up the price of a bucket wheel 40% for having to fit a counterweight. How much rebar is in the concrete block for goodness sake?

Unless you get away from the notion that there is a bunch of all singing all dancing equations & factors to be engaged for building a stockyard system then you will be open to confusion from all manner of chancers. Have word with Koch or somebody else who knows what they are about!

All parties seem agreed that barrel organs have had their day but it would be interesting to know what museums would really consider such extensive site fabrication as viable.

John Gateley johngateley@hotmail.com www.the-credible-bulk.com

Relative Cost Of Different Reclaim Method

Posted on 11. Jan. 2007 - 03:45

Dear Mr. Ross,

Reclaiming with Barrel type reclaimer is alway costly than any other type.The reasons are :

1.It is costly equipment.

2.Rail gauge is 4 times than wheel on boom reclaimer.

3.Civil cost is higher.

4. Controll logic is costly.

But to give a realistic figure I need more information & not only that I have to do lot of exercise on it.

But to get a rough idea you may consider 30 % higher than other type.

Regards.

A.Banerjee

Re: Surplus Stacker-Reclaimer Avail

Posted on 23. Jan. 2007 - 02:22

Originally posted by al Goodmundson

Greetings to all

Very interesting discussions concerning what type of Reclaimer should be used at the various sites.

If you decide on a boom mounted Bucket Wheel Type, we would be pleased to offer a 2500/1900tph surplus machine. Very good condition, with spare parts.

We are also able to supply surplus, Shiploaders (3) and Ship Unloaders(up to 1500tph BW type 3000hrs use).

Rail Car Dumpers (2), and a Thaw Shed

compliment our extensive range of Surplus

Port Equipment.

Surplus Mining Equipment consists of (3) Bucket Wheel Excavators, a Continuous Surface Mining Machine(overhauled c/w spares), and a rail mounted bi-directional Stacker. A large Spreader is also available.

We are at your service and welcome your questions, anytime.

Sincerely,

Al Goodmundson

Phone: Canada (306)-664-7260.

sir ,

still do you have the ship unloadres. what its approximate cost

Email norsequip@sasktel.net

Re: Relative Cost Of Different Reclaim Methods

Posted on 6. May. 2007 - 06:10

Dear Mr. Ross,

You have the barrel type reclaimer of capacity 1200 tph. This machine reclaims and it also creates excellent blending of the material.

Now, you want to have a reclaiming rate of 3000 tph. This means logically you need to have another reclaimer. So, the option would be to have one additional reclaimer of 1800 tph or if there is marginal difference in price of the reclaimer for 1800 tph and 3000 tph, then better to opt for the new reclaimer of 3000 tph.

As for the new reclaimer, if it is not to do the blending function, the usual choice is for bucket wheel on slewing luffing boom, linear travel machine. This machine is possibly less in price compared to barrel reclaimer. The machine is also easy to operate, less sensitive to material flow characteristics, it can be used to reclaim from multi-points. The machine can be also a stacker-reclaimer, with limited increase in price. The machines meant for high blending efficiency has dominant feature for that function.

So, you please make the appropriate choice.

Regards,

Ishwar G Mulani.

Author of Book : Engineering Science and Application Design for Belt Conveyors.

Author of Book : Belt Feeder Design and Hopper Bin Silo

Advisor / Consultant for Bulk Material Handling System & Issues.

Email : parimul@pn2.vsnl.net.in

Tel.: 0091 (0)20 25882916

Relative Cost Of Different Reclaiming Method

Posted on 11. May. 2007 - 12:15

Dear Mr. Ross,

Blending effect is defined as

M= ( 1- standard deviation of property for output flow/ standard dev.at input flow) x 100

A typical analysis will show that best blending efficiency will be given by scraper reclaimer followed by barrel type reclaimer. Blending efficiency also very closely related with stacking method.For best blending you may go for Chevron staking. However, Chevron stacking needs slewing stacker- costlier than fixed boom.

It is obvious that other than wheel on boom reclaimer , all are costlier. Where blending is not required , it is better to use wheel on boom reclaimer for reclaiming purpose.

So one should select the machine considering all these.

Regards.

A.Banerjee

Re: Relative Cost Of Different Reclaim Methods

Posted on 12. May. 2007 - 04:13

It is possible, endemically, to blend with a slewing bucket wheel machine. It's what they do.

Standard deviation???? Statistical term: interpreted in the real world as "tell me what you want proved". The mere introduction of statistics nullifies all knowledge & experience.

John Gateley johngateley@hotmail.com www.the-credible-bulk.com

Blending Efficiency

Posted on 15. May. 2007 - 01:54

Dear Mr. Johngately,

To understand what is blending efficiency & why I have written, you must read the following papers.

1. Bed blending theory..... By Mr. A.W. Gerstel.

2.Stacking & reclaiming method for bed blending system.... By Mr. Koch

3.Smapling of powders & grained bulk materials... By Mr. Sommer

4.Homogenizing/ Blending... By Mr. Wet

5. Homogenisation / Blending system.... By C.G. Schofield

Regards.

A.Banerjee